Direct Messages - Kosmic

Direct Messages

Kosmic

After 2025-12-03 00:00

i think i have the record for most disappointing failure in SMB glitch-hunting for now.

Oh????

22:49

I am sooo curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0HguV68o8 eh someone may have a bigger disappointment, but, it's so close. if i could just turn those koops, or if they spawned a tiny bit later.. and then there's a spawn like 1 tile to the right at the ending, if that was a little to the left, it would have worked. but just perfectly lines up to where it doesn't. :) i was looking at it quite a while back and it just felt so close that like, there's gotta be a way to do it. but still haven't figured it out. (edited)

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Oh no wayyyy

10:22

I had never considered this

10:22

ACE in -1?

10:23

We can't take damage to turn the koopas around?

10:26

Even if you need fireballs for payload they should still persist after taking damage... So this seems doable?

10:27

I think you just need 2 of them right, so take damage on the first one and you're good?

10:27

At worst you turn the goomba around to get all 3 of them

10:27

Please let me know if there's some reason this doesn't work, otherwise I feel like we have ACE in smb1

10:28

And ofc it's the fds version because ACE is ALWAYS on the fds version of every game somehow rofl

10:28

Man I was exploring past the flagpole just a month ago or so and saw all this goofy stuff but it didn't cross my mind

10:29

This is actually so insane. I've been trying to figure out a video topic to do and this could be it...

yeah the problem is they don't turn around when you're under water. :)

10:44

but yeah if we could find that last little thing to just get it triggered.. it would be harder to do something useful with ACE in SMB1, but it's be great

they what haha

10:52

why... i guess so cheep cheeps dont turn around?

10:53

is this a tas, could you send me the file

threecreepio

but yeah if we could find that last little thing to just get it triggered.. it would be harder to do something useful with ACE in SMB1, but it's be great

is it because there's not such a particular place in memory to jump to the ending sequence? Im not sure how total control gets set up in 2j but if it's possible in smb1 landscape then you can do whatever, drop mario right on the axe. Or at worst load into 8-4? Would still be faster

Kosmic

is this a tas, could you send me the file

Sure, 1 min. On the phone.

10:56

and just to check, the glitched entity doesn't get cleared by killing bowser? The star flag doesnt so im assuming this doesnt

11:02

why do you kill the red koopa on the stairs btw

11:03

oh the cheep despawns firebar so bowser can spawn

11:05

man it's almost perfect if there was 1 more enemy before the long firebar also

the long firebar is unfortunately not useful, its not the real long firebar so it doesnt take an extra slot. :)

11:08

i think. let me check

11:09

yeah. its not taking an extra slot. and that byte between the enemies and the flags isnt cleared when bowser dies so the glitch keeps working. i have forced it just by making the koops turn around by editing memory, and that did trigger the ACE. but its not quite as easy to use as 2j

Kosmic

This is actually so insane. I've been trying to figure out a video topic to do and this could be it...

yeah your youtube post popped up in my feed so i figured, i havent made any progress on this thing in months (not that ive been actively looking) so i might as well mention it.. maybe some way to find something i've missed.

do you know that glitch where enemies will start moonwalking after you take damage?

the firebar thing?

yeah you usually see it in like 7-4 of 2j

11:12

does the firebar have to be rotating or do you know how that works

i dont think so, i think it should just turn whatever enemy is in the first slot

11:15

oh and also if it didnt take that long to get over there, we could have slowed down to despawn a few of the like.. flagpoles and things later on in the level and spawned another bowser which would trigger the glitch. but, too far away

wow it's close in so many ways

11:19

after the bowser kill, did you purposefully get the retainer object in slot 3 or was that just from trying to go as fast as possible

i did some adjustments to make sure bowser was spawning in the later slots, since thats where you want him for the controller inputs. i dont remember if you want the head in slot 4 or 5.

uhhhh

but for now i just want the thing to actually hit ACE, so it doesnt matter that much which slot its in until proven that it actually can happen

uhhhhh

11:23

i think i found something

oh?

Image attachment

11:24

i was far right on the screen so i was to the right of him when he landed

huh

so he walked to the right

yeah, which koop is that?

ok so that was an earlier one, but now a later one also did it

that is why i wanted to be far right on the screen (or well, one of the reasons) but could only get the buzzy and one underground koop to actually turn

11:25

but yeah if we could get one turned out to bump into another enemy (assuming they at least left that intact in underwater..) then that could do it

the one right before the goomba before the 3 koopas turned around so he could turn the goomba arounda nd the goomba can turn the 3 around

11:25

but also

11:25

do you know theres ANOTHER single koopa after the 3 lol

i know there's one underground. :b

11:26

which is like off screen

oh i may have messed this up...

11:26

i had a cheat on

ahh

dang

i was thinking, i hadnt seen a normal koop back there.

11:27

and the damn hammer bros wont chase you to the right of course. :)

because of course

11:27

nothing can go to the right, and theres no normal koopas by the firebar lol

yeah if there was just one enemy that happened to walk to the right, i think we'd have enough time to drag it along

11:28

and then all those parakoops just begging to be demoted, but, underwater

not turning around from damage is cruel

starting to see why it feels like the more disappointing failure, haha

11:30

feels like you couldn't have intentionally made this closer to working.

1

which slot is it that firebar turns enemies around with damage, is it 0016 or 0017

16

of course this buzzy beetle you could get to turn around, literally right after it matters

it's absolutely beautiful

or if the blooper came a spot earlier maybe he could turn koopas around?

11:32

maybe not haha

no idea a blooper can turn enemies that are on the ground

11:35

but yeah a video showing SMB1 ace and that you actually can do "total control", would be neat. not sure anyone cares about the total control, but i have seen people assuming that you can only actually execute like one or two instructions.

bloopers do turn koopas around

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11:38

so theres some world where we like clip into the floor with the falling platform and then get the blooper to turn a koopa around lol. But we dont live in that world

ahh neat. :) i think i could get a firebar to spawn near the first bowser and maybe that would be able to turn a cheep.. but, i think even if i did the cheep would be too slow to help

11:40

and you need fire, so

11:40

at least for one bowser

11:41

i got the impression you managed to set it up yourself, so dont need my janky tas? :)

11:42

its really just savestated through anyway, nothing complicated that needs to be done

does the game not spawn anything after its spawned a flag or something

oh it does, you can get a flag spawn without a problem

11:45

just as long as there's only one slot free when bowser wants to spawn and you're all good

i hit a spot where it spawned like invisible flag and "powerup" (not in powerup slot) and then nothing spawned after that

11:46

just trying to see whats after this bowser, and the "flags" you were referring to

yeah i think the spawn after that is just tricky. i used the underground koop to get by it

11:47

so just walked until things were spawning so i could get a free early slot

the slots arent full so i dont know why things stop spawning

11:47

do you have a tas of you messing with stuff farther down the line

11:47

or like wher eit would work if we had enough time

yeah it is a ways though, i hadnt noticed how far it was. :)

11:49

this should get there, if you prevent the timer expiry

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thank you!

im sure you can shave off time but, not that much

oh i guess i need to freeze the timer after entering -1

haha yeah

11:51

otherwise you'll be waiting a while at the flag

11:52

you can also kill the bowser at the start of the level, but it didnt feel like it opened up many options

can you explain the steps here (if you remember them) like why killing certain enemies matter, what waiting by the floor koopa does, etc?

ehm mostly there are a lot of entities around there that never despawn, like, vines and flagpoles. so by keeping a slot filled with an entity that you can get rid of you just try to walk to the point where the spawns have been skipped so you can keep a slot available. since as soon as all the slots are filled there's nothing more you can do

gotcha

11:55

i couldnt reall ytell what the purpose of standing by the floor koopa was though, like he just goes off screen at the same time no?

its the enemy with type 4

11:56

which is a glitched koopa thats walking off sreen

oh, huh

11:56

could i have that lua where all the numbers show up on the enemies

ive managed to get it to walk at twice that speed before

it just takes whatever the speed was in that slot, so

11:58

here it is. its a very hacked up script that i was working on a few years ago, because i started getting annoyed by my script that puts a lot of overlays over the game. :)

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hmm im only seeing the

threecreepio in the corner

hm it should open a tiny window with some buttons on it

12:01

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ooh

then you just click enemies

wow thats awesome

gives a lot more options for jamming stuff in at least. was thinking i'd add some ways to add/remove the different memory areas you might want for enemies. but not done that much with it.

man and OF COURSE this one that you could actually get to the right of, is a goomba, which doesn't TURN AROUND lol

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yeah :D its amazing

whats the spawn 1 tile to the right at the end? The spring?

there's a bullet bill, and then there's a spring

the one you said would've worked if it was closer

threecreepio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0HguV68o8 eh someone may have a bigger disappointment, but, it's so close. if i could just turn those koops, or if they spawned a tiny bit later.. and then there's a spawn like 1 tile to the right at the ending, if that was a little to the left, it would have worked. but just perfectly lines up to where it doesn't. :) i was looking at it quite a while back and it just felt so close that like, there's gotta be a way to do it. but still haven't figured it out. (edited)

here

yeah the bullet should be able to trigger it

12:09

they're like almost on top of eachother, but bowser is first :)

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ok so if that was closer it would be 4 slots full, we'd get glitch round 2, and then we'd wait until another regular koopa for ACE to happen?

ah right yeah didnt think about the koop. :) that might still ruin that idea then

12:10

or would it. i'll have to check

is this tas you sent supposed to end on an ACE

nah not in that version, it just shows the bowser over there

12:11

but ive done ACE off that one, so, it does work.

12:12

i just crashed it but still.

how do you ace with this guy once you load him

ehm i think in that TAS i had 1 extra slot left open, not sure if i have a save without that. otherwise i can probably make one, i just messed around manipulating slots until it worked out.

12:13

i think i may not have killed the earlier bowser when i did the ACE version

12:14

i can check though

oh i mean like you need a koopa right or

no thats why i was a little confused, it still spawned in properly but there was as far as i recall no koop for it to take over

so i guess it just went down the line until it hit some other 00 in the code and crashed?

ok i have no recollection of how i got this to work now.. there is a green paratroopa that you can spawn in right before the bowser, and you can shoot it and while its falling its an enemy type 0 and can be taken over, but then i needed another clear slot, which i thought i have from a horizontal platform, but i cant get it now

12:26

i really need to just write something to show me all the upcoming spawns

12:27

brain gets fried so fast trying to do these things.

yeah i know, it's tough when we cant just look at a map of all the things that can spawn or whatever

yeah definitely worth writing a little lua parser for it. its not like the format is difficult

do you care if i share this with others like Lain/Simplistic

suppose not, im not making much more progress anyway. :)

ok, thanks man. I was thinking i might just do a quick little video covering all the ways this is almost possible- but i realized i have to explain ace in the first place for it to make any sense lol. So I'll probably end up doing a 2j ace video afterall and this will be like a second half to it.

12:52

but i dont think i have time for that this month

12:52

that will give some more time to explore this more as well

yeah i think getting something in with the TC could be fun, just not sure what to show off.. there's always "Bad Apple" but it feels a little done.

in 2j?

i looked at the spawns (dont mind the level data i didnt bother to change that..) and there's so many enemies there..

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oh wow wait what theres so many koopas

Kosmic

in 2j?

yeah, that we can swap out all of the PRG and CHR with whatever we want

12:53

i have no idea whats making things spawn or not spawn, so :)

threecreepio

yeah, that we can swap out all of the PRG and CHR with whatever we want

lain made a neat triple ACE tas at least

12:54

this is a great referenc,e thanks for that

12:54

i was wondering if there were a lot of things not spawning

yeah smbutil wasnt that helpful

im also imagining a way it's possible to have the right enemies coming from the midway, but only if you could magically get fireflower back lol

yeah andrew mentioned the thing in 7-2 or whatever with spawning a mushroom

12:57

but then you need to do the vine death thing, and that'll change so much that i doubt it's worth it

12:59

i think that glitches out the entire enemy data area

spawning a mushroom?

13:17

oh sorry i was thinking 7-3

13:18

i didnt know you could spawn a mushroom with that glitch haha

13:18

that is interesting to consider the vine from the start and the midway

yeah. i did take a quick look at it way back but didnt seem to give me much of anything useable. but maybe

does just have that feel like this has to be possible

14:12

but it is tricky, since you have to kill that bowser after the flag so that clears everything

threecreepio

i looked at the spawns (dont mind the level data i didnt bother to change that..) and there's so many enemies there..

how did you get smbutil to show this? Is it just a file that can be shared or?

threecreepio

you can also kill the bowser at the start of the level, but it didnt feel like it opened up many options

I guess when you did this you had to have the special Y pos to avoid crashing near the flagpole? And all those fireworks go off in the sky and stuff?

17:43

wondering if stuff past the flagpole is way different too

Kosmic

I guess when you did this you had to have the special Y pos to avoid crashing near the flagpole? And all those fireworks go off in the sky and stuff?

You just need some value in zeropage to be 31, fireball x pos is a good choice

Kosmic

how did you get smbutil to show this? Is it just a file that can be shared or?

Yeah not home atm but i can send it later. I just hacked the enemy data for -1 into another level to look at it

ok yeah that would be good. Thanks

17:47

and wondering about the cheep cheep you were thinking you could turn around with the firebar

17:47

thats not the same one thats in the floor right next to the flagpole is it?

Yeah, you can get a firebar right after it. But it doesn’t help much since you know.. taking damage.

17:48

And not sure if it can even spawn in slot 1

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threecreepio

Yeah, you can get a firebar right after it. But it doesn’t help much since you know.. taking damage.

i was more wondering how it would help at all, since it's at floor height. Oh I guess to have 1 more enemy on screen later

18:27

problem then is not even losing fire, it's that even if you killed bowser he'd despawn the cheep

true

18:43

pretty much stuck with that point being a full enemy reset

for a moment i was like wait let's use the first bowser. But, we dont have anything in the powerup slot yet

if you could do the vine glitch without losing fire, then it might have been an option.

yeah at the very least, if you could get the vine glitch without losing fire, you could get the glitch set up and make it to that next bowser in time. but with just 11 ticks left on the clock so even if it would have helped we would probably need some manips that would slow it down too much.

11:52

and for the biggest F U that i've seen in this game. when you kill that second bowser.. it turns into a powerup (which hurts you if you touch it.)

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what

i swear this was coded intentionally

could you share the tas for this

if you were to make a "all the ways the game refuses to let you do ACE in SMB1" this would be an amazing addition.

it's weird that it turns into something different than the others

threecreepio

if you were to make a "all the ways the game refuses to let you do ACE in SMB1" this would be an amazing addition.

that is certainly the plan!!

here's the inputs, but, you do need to manually adjust your powerup state when entering -1 the second time

ace_vine_weirdness.fm2

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1

11:55

which you can do by changing 754 to 0, 756 to 2

Thanks for all your effort on this

11:56

it's so cool. But so annoying haha

yeah this'll be perfect for my compilation of things i've done that just never worked out, like the plant despawn (edited)

11:59

probably worth checking what happens from the start of the level too, not that it matters.

so

17:14

enemies actually just DONT turn each other around when underwater

17:14

when areatype = 0

oh perfect

17:14

i knew i hated underwater areas for a reason.

so if it was a swimming level but not "underwater" then it would work

17:15

like damage would turn them around too

haha

i dont think the game ever loads swimming flag but not underwater type though

17:15

naturally

17:15

maybe im wrong? cant think of an instance of glitched world where that happened

hm yeah probably not

bloopers actually dont turn cheep cheeps around

nothing does

17:22

why did they make this a thing in underwater levels

17:22

there is nothing in smb1 that this decision would affect... cheeps already never turn around

17:23

in 2j it would affect turning koopas or buzzy beetles around when you run into them

17:23

or spinies

17:23

or goombas, whatever

17:23

haha. Doesnt really matter

yeah if they were turned around when you were underwater like normal, what would be the difference..

i thought they implemented it this way so that cheeps wouldnt turn around cuz that would be really weird, but yeah they are just impossible to turn around. There's no reason for this kosmicSad

kosmicSad

17:24

same way that like bullet bills dont turnaround on land levels

17:24

literally flip 1 bit and we have ace in smb1

so we just need a single cosmic ray, easy

if you got a different enemy there that wasnt a koopa, would it still lead to ace

17:26

like you trigger 2nd glitch but then find a koopa later or something?

17:26

Er i guess you said the later bowser one still crashed even though there was no koopa (edited)

17:27

this is my list so far of our dilemma

Need 1 more
Bullet barely too late
Koopas barely too early
Normally could turn them around with damage… doesn’t happen underwater
Could turn them around by being on the right side of them when they land…. They are not high up. 
The goomba is…. Goombas dont turn around. 
Exactly 1 enemy too late, the buzzy beetle you can turn around
Bloopers could come down and turn koopas around but blooper is too late
Actually… enemies never turn each other around when underwater
Assuming this is done so bloopers dont turn cheep cheeps around
..is what i thought. But they never turn around regardless. Why???
Could do it later but run out of time lol
Could maybe do it with earlier firebar? But it’s actually not a full double firebar….
Could maybe turn enemies around with firebar glitch but firebar isn’t next to enemies on the ground
Test if COULD turn cheep cheep around…. But cheep is too slow lol!! Out of time
Hammer bros chase you after a while….. But NOT to the right!
Earlier bowser??? How close is that. Oh… powerup slot
Midway, different bowser?
If you could keep fire from midway with the vine glitch it’s possible (apparently?)
Killing bowser turns into a fireflower that hurts you lol??

no i think you need some slot with enemy id 0, there was a koop right before that i had shot, so while its dying it was a 0

oh i see

17:29

do you think theres a path to victory if we did get the glitch on that bowser, but no koopa on screen

17:29

just have to find 1 koopa later right

but ive no idea what i had that filled 2 slots. i think i might have walked the buzzy beetle and the glitched koop over or something. i was kinda just wasting time testing things that wouldn't work anyway.

Kosmic

do you think theres a path to victory if we did get the glitch on that bowser, but no koopa on screen

nah you'd need to delay the bowser spawn completely somehow, otherwise it'll just overwrite whatever 0 value it happens to find after the enemy ids

oh i see

17:32

ok so we NEED a koopa

yep

17:33

i think the enemy slot is filled the same frame, anyway..

then i feel like the only hope is these 2 that are in the sky, or some other path to victory like killing other bowsers or something

Image attachment

if it happens like, next frame, i guess there's a world where you clear an enemy slot right on the frame after bowser spawns. but i would expect its on the same frame.. if despawning turns them to 0.. cant remember right now. (edited)

Kosmic

then i feel like the only hope is these 2 that are in the sky, or some other path to victory like killing other bowsers or something

yeah problem with those two is that the spawn order is.. bloober, buzzy beetle, then the firebar to the left, then the two koops. and that pretty much forces it to skip them since the game wont spawn the enemies unless they're off screen.

man theres like 5 bowsers later

haha i know its fantastic

i imagine a world where this is a properly working long firebar (i dont understand why it's not?) and you have an expendable enemy with you. You load the firebar, kill the enemy, then load bowser and win

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17:42

well i guess you need a koopa

i think you can also do it with a bowser, maybe, for a frame

17:44

but bowser would need to be spawned so

threecreepio

yeah problem with those two is that the spawn order is.. bloober, buzzy beetle, then the firebar to the left, then the two koops. and that pretty much forces it to skip them since the game wont spawn the enemies unless they're off screen.

just so i understand how this works, if the firebar was "on screen" so it didnt load in, but the koopa load in point was still off screen, would it load in?

yeah i think it can still handle that, as long as they're off screen. there's some leeway period where it'll still spawn.. not sure how big it is though.

17:47

i guess it wouldn't be too hard to test with some ram editing (edited)

17:49

nah they're too far left, didn't notice they were right around the bloober spawn, and thats definitely plenty on screen by the time the beetle spawns

:/

Image attachment

getting that firebar spawn would have also been good enough

17:53

assuming we can get the koops in the first slots, not sure

how far off screen is "off screen" ? If the koopa was like 2 blocks to the right would it work

17:53

it is roughly in this square here

yeah im not sure what the distance is.. i feel like its 2 blocks off the right edge..

literally so close with all the spawn positions and spawn order. If this guy was just in front of the buzzy beetle like he should be

17:55

like theres such a world where this koopa just spawns in place of the beetle and it works out perfectly kosmicSad

kosmicSad

threecreepio

getting that firebar spawn would have also been good enough

how would that work? still missing a koopa right?

this doesnt spawn

Image attachment

17:57

and this does

Image attachment

17:57

so it needs to be pretty dang close

so he needs to be 3 blocks to the right

Kosmic

how would that work? still missing a koopa right?

i meant if we had that firebar by the koops we should be able to use the firebar collision to turn them around at least

ooh yeah

17:58

oh man

haha

ok well, putting this on the backburner again for now. Will bring it up with lain/simplistic at some point and see if they have any ideas

18:00

ill make a group chat with all of us

yeah that makes sense

i just got back on this after seeing this clip and the beetle not turning the spinies around

Image attachment

ahh haha

18:01

just a really weird thing to have disabled

yeah this is what i was going off about earlier

18:03

why is this a thing, cheeps dont turn around anyway. And theres no other enemies in smb1

18:04

in 2j theres these ground enemies but it's weird that they go through each other

18:04

so idk why it's a thing

yeah they already have logic for enemies that don't turn around anyway

trying to find in code where this distinction would be

should be in HandlePECollisions

18:09

hm maybe not

18:10

maybe the checks in EnemiesCollision for water areas stop it

ooh

Image attachment

18:12

let me game genie code to test this. I could just set these 4 instructions to NOP's or something right

18:12

or even 2 i guess

could probably just change the beq to bcc

threecreepio

You just need some value in zeropage to be 31, fireball x pos is a good choice

could you explain how to set this up? I tried it like this but thats not right

Image attachment

ok I tried "fireball relative Xpos" as well but that didnt work

threecreepio

i dont think so, i think it should just turn whatever enemy is in the first slot

im trying to turn the grey cheep around, just for testing, and i took damage from the firebar with the cheep cheep in slot 0, but it didn't turn around. Am I misunderstanding how it works?

15:30

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do you happen to know how to clip through a flagpole underwater?

18:57

happylee said i should just do that instead of the floor clip because its so much easier but eh, i have no idea how to do that :D

oh, huh... no i didnt know about that

18:59

did you show him everything?

well i sent him the video i made, and he tested it out himself

19:02

can definitely see it being possible

Image attachment

19:03

oh i got it

19:04

ok its actually not bad

19:04

i see how it works

19:04

you just start clipping and then you can swim into the block above to stay in the "air" and keep clippintg

19:05

the final bowser is on page 57 or something and going from the midway and clipping through the flag you can get to like, 42 maybe lol

19:05

at full speed

ah nice. yeah i imagine it would still not help much

er not final bowser, but the next one

but it would give a little more space for things to work with the vine, even if it's not as interesting with the vine

do you know how it works with the vine?

19:06

thats another version i want to show off

19:06

i just have it written down that if you could respawn with fireflower you could ace, but i dont know the details

19:07

i was trying to look at it here, as you can see there are these koopas

19:07

but after the first bowser a bunch of glitched objects spawn and filled slots

well it just skips ahead in the enemy table, for -1 it's still inside the normal enemy table, so you just get spawns at different places. which is.. fine.. but it doesn't help us. i think in the underwater levels it jumps outside the normal enemy data area or something.

19:08

oh did it give other glitched objects for you in -1? (edited)

yeah, it deletes the star flag, and the slots arent even full but nothing spawns now

Image attachment

if it had like, ended up half-way through an enemy or something with the new position, that could probably have had more effects too, but doesn't seem to do anything too notable

ah interesting i see

everything is so unpleasant to do underwater

Besides clipping, we get free floor clips and ffpgs and getting past the flag... But if we could stomp a single enemy or, like, literally anything we could ace

yeah we really did not luck out with that..

do you know if it's possible at all to get the long firebar near bowser to spawn? Like lets say there are 0 sprite slots filled. Will we get bowser to load and then long firebar to load? Or is the long firebar too far to the right?

^ did you go down this rabbit hole before? Dude this is another one which literally would work if the sprites weren't arranged perfectly wrong

i don't think i've looked at that one, is it spawning in to the left of bowser, but after in the enemy list? it's a real shame the level format allows that to happen.. and that they then 'handle' is by just skipping over the spawn.

yeah it's listed after bowser, but to his left

13:57

just like everything else useful near the second bowser......

13:57

or rather they all come after that beetle

13:58

which if the beetle was 1 tile to the right i think it'd be guaranteed to be after the others? Because of page values?

13:58

I want to test this for sure but im not sure exactly how to properly modify the enemy list in smb util

13:58

as well as that hack you sent over is in 1-1 so it doesn't work perfectly right. But i could move it to 5-3 or whatever

moving it to 5-3 or something shouldn't be a problem

id love to make a tas of this where i just move teh long firebar above bowser in the order. I'm pretty postiive i could get the overflow glitch twice. No green koopa at that point

i guess smbutil refuses to put things in bad orders if you start trying to change things?

correct

that is sensible.

so i can drag the firebar around and it changes the order

14:00

is it possible if you trigger it twice, but no green koopa on screen, to still get ACE?

14:00

the value is gonna get written somewhere else I guess

yeah it'll get written off the end of the enemy_ids which doesn't have anything very useful in it i don't think

14:01

does the duplicate object spawn on the same frame as bowser/the long firebar?

yes

thought so, dang

14:02

since eraseenemyobjects clears enemy_id, if it duplicated like the frame after or something, you could have "just" made sure 1 enemy despawned the frame after bowser spawns

14:03

but yeah. checked the code, same frame

threecreepio

since eraseenemyobjects clears enemy_id, if it duplicated like the frame after or something, you could have "just" made sure 1 enemy despawned the frame after bowser spawns

oh i see, smart

14:06

ok i moved the minus world level to 6-1. And moved the firebar above bowser in the list

make any difference? felt like that firebar would spawn in a bit too early?

im not sure, testing it

14:13

i actually need to move it to world 8 so bowsers delete objects when killed

14:13

er wait, sorry

14:14

yes the problem is that the firebar spawns too early so you cant do it because bowser needs to load first

14:14

so im moving it up in the list so it spawns before bowser

14:15

then you can trigger ace with bowser while still having a slot full, and not have to clear the enemy slots

14:17

wait nevermind we dont even need this, i think i can do it with the small firebar

such a weird way to have implemented turning off turnaround logic. not like, the cheeps cheeps don't turn.. just, nothing can turn around underwater.

well it's just a side effect of trying to prevent stomping underwater, right

14:20

they happened to put the turnaround code later after the branch out to get away from stomping underwater

14:21

like if water level -> just injure the player, dont bother checking if we stomped them or not

14:21

but if we continue, then do all the checks of stomping, turning around, etc

14:21

could've easily been coded a little differently and gg

yeah that's fair

14:21

mmm

or if this stupid

14:21

beetle

14:21

was not in the list before literally everything else

14:22

theres no useful stuff, and then theres a billion useful things but theyre all locked behind this beetle, then theres no useful stuff until we run out of time, then theres 20 bowsers

it's just such a great level

we're actually really lucky it doesn't crash in regular playthroughs for mwe

14:23

but yeah it is being incredibly frustrating for ace

and then of course killing that second bowser clears the whole state, and for just the bit between that bowser and the next one nothing really interesting is happening

i know dude

14:24

theres all this junk that clogs up slots

14:24

except right when we need slots full

14:25

theres just nothing

14:25

and theres like 8 koopas around this bowser

then immediately after it goes back to being nuts

and we cant get 1 of them on screen

and the buzzy beetle is the first thing we can even get to turn around

yeah exactly 1 enemy too late

14:25

the goomba we could get to the right of

14:25

goombas dont turn around

14:26

hammer bro doesnt chase to the right

14:26

cant turn underwater

can you do second quest MWE?

.......................................

yeah

14:26

creepio

14:26

! lol

14:26

thats not fast but

14:26

that should do something

its definitely worth checking (edited)

thats big

14:27

ok im testing this firebar thing really fast then im jumping on that

i dont know how it took me like a year to think of that..

sometimes you just have to keep staring at stuff

14:27

and ranting to your rubber duck friends

14:27

we have fun bricks because of w8... i dont really want that in footage lol but i dont know how to insert this directly into minus world from smb util

Image attachment

if you look at the bytes in smbutil, you could probably hexedit search that in the normal rom and change it? kinda annoying..

14:32

yep. at least there was nothing super special about the goomba to make it not turn into a buzzy, so, new territory!

14:33

now im sitting in the middle of a coworking space with super mario up..

testing beetle rn

successfully crashes, at least, which is a new thing to happen

oh i have to brb

14:37

thats the closest yet!!!

14:37

thats big

14:37

not fast, but..... big

14:38

quest 2, japanese version any% lol

i mean i'll take it for now at least.. if nothing else, it'll be another interesting potential thing that fell short, we have a lot of those!

had stuff i have to take care of, but ill be back at it in like 90 minutes and share a tas of the crash with everyone

sounds good

i mean its encouraging in a way to at least find new things every now and then

definitely

18:35

closer than it's ever been... sort of

18:35

i mean for sure

18:35

but yea

i dont think it would help in any way, but it is funny if you do the vine glitch you get 2 koops that perfectly line up so they can't move because of the completely unnecessary second solid block at the large castles.

right

🤦‍♂️

like we almost got them going to the right there

19:32

but yeah i guess they would disappear from bowser

19:32

unless you had access to the stinkin long firebar

19:32

and theres no more later

yeah you can walk with them toward the next bowser.. but seemed like you would need like an extra 40-50 on the timer to make it

quest 2??

19:33

faster koops haha

yeah

oh did you already do that

mmm

19:33

first quest you're nowhere close to it working unfortunately :)

19:33

and yeah with the vine glitch it's also of course more limiting because you can't fire kill bowser :)

it is funny that the vine glitch makes it so that that bowser can be glitched, but then the enemydata starts after the bowser right at the flagpole normally.. so the next bowser is the one that's just out of reach. and of course no fire, so, probably wouldn't help.

yeah i dont understand exactly how the vine glitch works but it seems like it makes all the enemies appear about 14 pages earlier?

11:25

i think if you swam at absolutely max speed from the midway you might barely reach the last bowser but not sure

11:26

lots of reasons it doesnt work of course but yeah

it just changes the the low byte of the enemydata address to 8px above mario's Y position

i see!

only in water levels, otherwise it just spawns that vine at the start.

it's something with the bubbles isn't it?

11:30

i know it makes new enemies appear in other water levels. Is that because it starts going out of bounds? But this level has such a long enemy list that we still are just getting normal ones?

yeah. the code for setting up the bubbles is after the code for a vine entry, and they didn't handle the case of there being a vine entry in an underwater stage.

1

11:31

if B8 ends up in the middle of an enemy definition, you start reading the wrong data

11:31

though B8 is for -1, it should be different in 2-2 since you start at a different Y position

ah, i see. Offset

11:32

So the thing where you apparently can spawn a mushroom, thats not possible here- thats just going to be dependent on the enemy list and YPos?

yeah, at least as far as i've seen it shouldn't be possible.

11:36

you can of course easily get over to the last bowsers area.. not with him there though.. just despawn the flag, scroll the screen over a bit and grab it high up enough that you miss the blocks and walk all the way over there. :) but the enemy space will be very filled up by the time you get there.

right yeah

11:39

wait i just had a crazy thought haha

11:40

hmmmmmmmmmmmm................... im having some good thoughts

well that sounds good..

could you explain the 0 page thing to me, to avoid crashing after killing the first bowser

oh, it's just scanning through zeropage looking for the number $31 anywhere, which is the starflag. so you need to make sure something is always $31. easiest is a fireball x pos.

oh 31 hex i guess

yeah

im not really familiar with what zeropage is

14:17

but ill get the proper fireball position this time

just ram $000-$0FF

1

when a firebar inherits its rotation starting position from a previous enemy, do you know what address it inherits from? Is it x position?

14:45

looks like it's probably y position

000000r 2 FirebarSpinState_Low = $58 000000r 2 FirebarSpinState_High = $a0 000000r 2 Enemy_X_Speed = $58 000000r 2 Enemy_Y_Speed = $a0

14:52

should be those

oh, hmm I see. Thanks!

14:53

can you take damage from a hammer after grabbing the flagpole?

hmmm.. good question.

i thoguht yes and was trying to make a hammer bro later hit me to break out of victory walk mode

14:58

i actually was hoping it would just freeze the timer forever but it restarts it unfortunately

14:58

you can get a firebar to break you out of the flagpole state

could you explain to me the invisible koopa in the floor thing, and how you made it go at a faster speed and stuff?

15:37

is there a way i can see him, with a lua or anything?

hm i think you can see it in the enemies list in the lua i sent you

16:41

it's just an enemy of type 04, which becomes a koop, but it doesn't clear the speed of the slot it was in

16:41

so it'll just keep going with whatever the previous enemy was in that slots speed.. so for example you can kill the hammer bro so it falls to the right and get the off-screen koop to spawn into that slot

this one is really sad

Image attachment

02:16

i cn get it to run to 6E8, at 6FC is the joypad inputs.. but the values that are right between there just can never line up so you make it through. :)

No way

by some miracle it manages to make it like 1768 bytes through ram without crashing. but it cant make the last 20. :)

And you can modify them some but not in a good way?

yeah it's the sprite shuffling code, the thing that makes the enemies flash when there's too many on a line, and it just moves them in a fixed cycle.

Ohh. Wow

02:20

That's a lot of ram you made it through.. There's gotta be an instruction we can make in there??

possibly, problem is we don't have that much control, because the game crashes when you scroll the screen 32px

02:22

and most levels are pretty empty there. :) there's like, 4-1 has a lakitu, maybe its Y pos could be useful.. i don't know

Ohh, I didn't know it's after the reset you would then input the controller inputs and head into the crash. Or, that's what it sounds like?

ah yeah

02:28

you let the game crash, then reset, and the byte should still be overwritten.

threecreepio

yeah it's the sprite shuffling code, the thing that makes the enemies flash when there's too many on a line, and it just moves them in a fixed cycle.

if im understanding right, that part is hard coded and no way to change it? Or the outcome changes depending on if sprite shuffling is happening?

yeah it shuffles every frame, moving in a little circle effectively. and it seems like no alignment that it gets into can actually make it all the way through the code. i haven't fully tested every possible 'alignment'.. can do that later.

some magic alignment pls

13:15

then we can make a jmp instruction and crash right after, by the sounds of it kosmicGO

kosmicGO

yeah i don't really know what the end goal of this particular setup is because even if we get it.. we've broken the scroll routine pretty badly..

13:19

we can probably execute 2 instructions at least, one from the X pos of an enemy in 5-1 or 8-1, and then one from mario's Y pos at the crash. but both are very very limited.. since 4-1 is the only place where we have any control of the operand.. so very limited control.. 2J had the advantage that we just needed to shift opermode over and we happen to land directly in disk loading the victory screen.. which also clears up our state pretty well to prevent crashes. Not as easy in SMB1. :)

it's absolutely unbelievable to me that this might end up working..

This is insane haha

14:20

It's soooo elaborate

like i saw that PPU open bus thing when i tested out the buzzy and figured that's obviously a dead end, what are the odds we won't just just get completely unpredictable crashes here..

ONE thing finally panned out

14:23

Of course it was the absurd one

14:23

Not just, any one enemy spot working out

should make for a ridiculously weird video.

I want to explain 2j ace and ace in general very well. But there's SO much to talk about in smb1

14:25

And I have 2 weeks

haha

and yeah someone needs to cover 2j total control, since abyssofts video kinda implies it wouldn't work.. probably with subframe input changes so it doesn't take 6 minutes to change game.

14:27

i was a little concerned when i watched that video and heard the announcement like.. you're about to make a video about how hard i've failed at finding something useful. :)

Noo, it not being possible wouldn't be a failure on your part

14:28

You have gotten us all the way here man

14:29

Initial idea, buzzy beetle, infinite time

people have written me like "i'm so excited to see your ACE setup in smb1!"

Oh wow haha.sorry for the pressure

14:50

I feel like I was clear that it was close and might be possible.. But a lot of people just go oh man ace is real

14:50

haha it's all good

14:54

have to send a clip of this.. what a beautiful level -1 can be

14:56

1

14:56

oh hey, power-up. :D

Image attachment

14:57

but it's a spiny :(

oh man what haha

15:03

is that because we have that glitched powerup in whatever slot and then spiny overwrites it?

i think it spawned in a powerup but didn't overwrite the enemy id or something.. no idea really

15:17

how the hell did that just work..

love this game sometimes. :)

so that was easy. :D

thats crazy man lol

16:43

like ugh wow it was so close i thought we had it

16:43

what are the chances something else works

16:43

boom grow a flower

haha

i feel like we're definitely going to have some setups.. i'm a little too tired to set up the enemy manip for it right now, but, somehow i imagine simplistic may be working on one.

makes sense

16:55

you did it man

16:55

i hope you can survive and make it home and get some sleep!!!

this has been a journey..

16:56

i wonder if the -1 things are RTA'able. not that it would be a timesave.

right. Yeah it seems like something that would be hard to be set up for

16:57

you can easily get over there and bring a beetle

16:57

but then it's like, blooper height and 1/3 chance of the right frame or something?

yeah seemed to be something like that.

doing ace to make the ace possible is so fun/cool

01:00

when it was ace to get infinite time so we could ace later i thought that was really sick

01:00

this is a much cleaner solution but yeah lol

yeah the timer thing would have been kinda clean in a way, but, this also makes it interesting, involves more of the game, world select.

01:04

think i'm going to look through all the different luigi addresses, see what exactly changes. probaly won't find anything better for ACE but maybe there's something fun in there.

yeah the situation is so complex with all the opcodes you guys were throwing around, for all we know there are other path(s)

01:04

but i'm very happy we got one working

what a huge change.

Image attachment

Image attachment

01:07

yeah i think the only real improvement we could get over the powerup is something that is easier to return back to normal execution from. because the powerup changes need a little nudging to get avoid crashes. but it's still really good.

threecreepio

what a huge change.

wait what happened here, did it put 2 extra koopas

nah it just moved the platform a little

oh lol

01:11

ohhh sorry

01:11

i was looking at those two pictures side by side, really confused

01:11

but they are two pictures. Lol

01:12

i thought it was 1 screenshot

01:12

i was like it inserted a whole platform? Im misremembering the layout?

9D : Write $20 to address $9D9E is a lot of fun.

whats that

one of the other things that can happen from the Luigi change

01:13

i'll make a little clip of it

01:16

also that we needed to fix the emulators is a nice touch.. (edited)

threecreepio

Click to see attachment 🖼️

oh, woah. Just saw this

11:54

it combined 2-1 and 2-3?

threecreepio

also that we needed to fix the emulators is a nice touch.. (edited)

thats true lol

haha yeah it completely flips out the level data. wouldn't be surprised if that can also lead to ACE somehow.

oh does it do this for more levels than just 2-1?

yeah any time you hit a block it will do something

oh wow

you can just open the fceux cheats, set 9D9E to 20, and hit some blocks to play with it

i seee

11:56

i want to do a stream of that haha

glitched worlds returns!

1

does the block have to bounce upward

it should work on power-up blocks or normal blocks

11:59

it changes this to.. JSR $95B5 which happens to line up with tha players animation code cleanly, so that part gets by fine.. then the byte after that becomes the next instruction and it goes off the rails a bit. but without crashing, somehow!

Image attachment

so, it's getting stuck at "0F3A" as far as I can tell. But if I do ctrl+F in the .lst there is not 0F3A. How do I know where i actually am?

Image attachment

so any value there, you need to take %0x800, or the easier approach.. just F => 7

12:26

so that is equivalent to 73A. the RAM is mirrored 4 times.. so address $000 is also $800, $1000 and $1800

oh this is the mirroring thing?

yeah

oh you said that

12:27

i see!

so you can just search for 73A in the document and you should find it.

ok it's because the koopas are on page 2, haha

sometimes you won't find the ram area, that can either be that it's unused or that it's used as an array, effectively.. so like lda enemy_id,x will be loading like.. $16,$17,$18,$19 or whatever.. but only $16 is documented.

12:29

ahh haha, yeah the page numbers can really mess with you. i can't believe how incredibly lucky it is that this code happened to put execution so close to the controller inputs..

12:34

oh btw, can you send me the version of bizhawk that has the fix in it?

Image attachment

beautiful

should be this https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xma2jcYU3yXXrXvM6CelN7xvbyoKS5r4/view?usp=sharing

bizhawk_2004FixRelease.zip

great, thank you! going to have to poke a bit more at that PPU stuff just to make sure there's nothing else that's been missed. :) but i can't imagine we'll find anything better than this.

do you have a tas of hitting ctl1 from the later bowser, with the timer ace/hack enabled?

19:03

i would like to show that for footage

that is a good question.

it's also funny how, this is the code that's executing with the corrupted player_state.. so that state can be.. 80, 81, 82, 83 or 84 depending on which slot bowser spawned into. it's then multiplied by 2 to get the offset into the MoveSubs jump table. Since $80 is the top bit, multiplying that by 2 gives you 0.. so the resulting values are.. $00, $02, $04 and $06. 00, 02 and 04 are perfectly valid values and will just make mario behave very slightly different for a frame or so before it reset.. 84 just happens to be the 1 slot it can be in that puts you outside of the actual player state table, and that happens to have a $20 as the second byte putting us into PPU and saving this whole setup.

Image attachment

i think i no longer have this record

Image attachment

1

threecreepio

it's also funny how, this is the code that's executing with the corrupted player_state.. so that state can be.. 80, 81, 82, 83 or 84 depending on which slot bowser spawned into. it's then multiplied by 2 to get the offset into the MoveSubs jump table. Since $80 is the top bit, multiplying that by 2 gives you 0.. so the resulting values are.. $00, $02, $04 and $06. 00, 02 and 04 are perfectly valid values and will just make mario behave very slightly different for a frame or so before it reset.. 84 just happens to be the 1 slot it can be in that puts you outside of the actual player state table, and that happens to have a $20 as the second byte putting us into PPU and saving this whole setup.

bowser being in the 84 slot is another actually quite big restriction i wasnt aware of before. I think a lot of my thoughts where it's super close in some other ways, would not actually work for that reason

01:11

like if the long firebar near bowser loaded, we could do things. But im not sure about getting bowser in that slot

trying to find the enemies i managed to drag over to get the later bowser ace, not managed to yet. :) i might have the tas saved at home, but, wrong continent.

oh didnt you do it yesterday

ohhh right that, i misunderstood

01:17

i had something else with a later bowser set up a long time ago. :) i can recreate that one easy enough..

01:18

there's been a bit too many dead end branches with this whole thing.

yeah you're good, no worries

01:25

i know a while back you tried it with infinite time

01:25

i thought you basically tried the same thing after we got the infinite timer ACE

01:25

and got to ctl1

threecreepio

i think i no longer have this record

you did it man. World first!

Kosmic

i thought you basically tried the same thing after we got the infinite timer ACE

yeah more or less, that was the little excursion that would have been devastating if the powerups didn't instantly save us. :)

Kosmic

you did it man. World first!

yeah i'm still in a bit of disbelief that it worked out.. normally i'd downplay these kinds of things but this is like, actually significant.

01:57

i'm recreating that thing now with the timer.. and it's triggering the ACE, but only on controller 2 right now, and somehow it's behaving differently than last time. :) before i would get stuck in mid-air and then get bowser to walk into me to trigger damage which led to ctl 1 inputs. right now for some reason i don't get stuck in mid-air. but all the enemies suddenly despawn after a second or so. so confusing. :)

Huh. That's really weird lol

01:57

any extra cheat on, or different slots or inputs than before?

no just hard mode and the timer code

I'm going to head to bed. No rush, can finish later if you want to. you've sacrificed a lot of sleep for us already haha.

yeah i mean it'll be able to lead back to ctl1 inputs soon enough, was just surprised it behaves differently. good night!

1

good night!

Still haven’t looked at the actual payloads, but, seems way more forgiving than 2J at least. And since we don’t need to care about damage we don’t need the B+Select thing on ctl2, so we should be able to jump much closer to enemy data and have potential RTA setups be a bit less precise. In 2J the total control thing needed to be constantly refreshing the damage timer to keep the game from crashing :)

ohh, wow i see. Thats why it took damage a billion times lol

i found why everything is despawning at least. for some reason bowser is spawning slightly higher up on the screen than he did before.. and when he jumps he hits the top of the screen, and the game treats that as if he's at the bottom of the screen and has fallen into the lava, and triggers the despawns!

oh wow wait what

12:15

that could be huge

so right here. which is still weird like, why does that not trigger on the first bowser in the stage?

Image attachment

i have kinda seen it but it was when i fire killed him

12:15

instead of a proper death animation he just disappears

ah yeah, that's what would happen

12:15

if he somehow was very high up on the screen

it seems like you also get weird behavior when you already have a previous bowser overflow glitched earlier

12:16

or actually

12:16

maybe just because theres already previous bowser slots

yeah they do all share a bunch of state

Image attachment

yeah the first bowser can just completely screen wrap... but he doesnt die

there's no handling for multiple loaded bowsers, so

yeah that seems to be why the second bowser is split in 2 parts

12:18

sometimes ive seen part of the bowser just reappear when i swim forward

which is a great effect, i am so happy about the split bowsers

like all the slots are full but randomly part of a bowser just appears again later

12:18

i wondered about using that to clear enemy slots and different times or something

yeah like when the back half of bowser re-appears when you shoot fireballs, because fireball state is right after enemy state, so it's overwriting state from that 'broken' enemy slot

oh it's from shooting fireballs, huh

which is also why you don't have 2 active fireballs on that second bowser kill

ahh

one of them is bowser :)

12:20

there's probably more to look into with that handling. probably nothing useful.

12:21

so it needs to have the d5 bit set. i wonder if the fireballs are setting that bit or what it is.. will need to check.

if you could get the 2nd bowser to disappear by just, going off the screen or whatever that could maybe save time in the run (edited)

12:23

hold A+start to get back to minus world ending faster and do the powerup corruption without fire?

12:23

not sure if we can get that bowser to load without fireballing the red koopa

hmm not sure.

12:25

definitely will be worth figuring out exactly what sets that bit, to see if it's triggerable.

the d5 biti s whats making him go off screen when up high?

12:26

er, dying

0B06D B5 1E                           lda Enemy_State,x       ;if d5 in enemy state is not set
0B06F 29 20                           and #%00100000          ;then branch elsewhere to run bowser
0B071 F0 14                           beq BowserControl

it is a dying flag, but i have no idea why it's getting set

interesting

figure it makes sense to involve happylee? i'm alright with it. obviously should keep it a bit limited since more people is more risk it accidentally starts spreading before you can make your video, and would be fun to have a big reveal.

but just watch when it comes out, someone will find that there's a 10x easier way to get ACE an hour after the video releases. :)

most very knowledgeable people have been completely surprised just by going past the flagpole in minus world lol

threecreepio

but just watch when it comes out, someone will find that there's a 10x easier way to get ACE an hour after the video releases. :)

yeah lol if we reveal it people could start working on it, maybe find a way to do it in quest 1

yeah.. and even if you do go past the flagpole you won't find anything because the slots fill up.. so you need to snipe that koop, back off..

im glad it's working at all. But it is so close to being actually faster which would be an extra big bonus haha

12:36

seriously, if that big firebar would spawn, im pretty sure we could do it in quest 1

yeah i wouldn't be surprised if there are improvements to be found. quest 1 would obviously be the big one.. it feels weird that you have to beat the game to set up ACE to beat the game. :)

yeah like, if minus world ending isn't actually "beating the game" then how does minus world ending + ace count lol

12:37

it is the actual proper ending with the right text and music but yeah it's funny/weird

for now i am glad that it's very very different from 2J, like, it's not just "find the same scenario that we knew works from 2J and do it in SMB1."

yeah smb1 continues to put up its fight to be unbreakable

12:38

finally did break through after so much monumental effort

12:38

and it's still a bit slower haha

and that it's so close to being faster..

4:53 continues to elude

if we could just do the luigi section without powerups, we'd be there

12:39

or if we could do it without second quest

can you hold A+Start and pick 2 player?

12:39

And both start in minus world?

yeah

gotcha

12:39

well this bowser thing is the closest we've got atm i think

12:39

but that bower doesnt seem to go up to the top of the screen anyway

12:40

im not sure why some do that

no i have no idea. i don't think it'd lead anywhere but it's worth figuring out what exactly is happening there.

do you know how i can modify the enemy list in smbutil without resorting the entire list

i don't think you can. all you could do is look up which enemy to change in there and then search up the bytes in a hex editor

hm i see

12:42

i want to do things like move a firebar 1 block right, or just move the long firebar up 1 slot in the spawn order

or adjust it in the disassembly and build a new version

12:43

it's easy to do

or move the buzzy beetle down in the spawn order

12:43

man it's actually so crazy how many things are around that bowser

12:43

but we struggled to get this 1 beetle

12:43

and like 8 of them are green koopas lol

yeah it's in part ridiculous that this wasn't super easy based on the enemy data.. and crazy that it worked at all.

12:46

i do think smbutil is open source so, could probably hack out the reordering, too

thats true, we're definitely lucky it works at all

12:46

we're even lucky that fds minus world exists or doesn't crash etc

12:46

like yeah it's hard to fill slots around some bowsers

12:46

but it easily could've just clogged before any bowsers existed

Yeah and that the Japanese game is on a diskette instead of cartridge

12:48

If fds minus world had been on the nes instead we’d be out of luck

right, it wouldn't persist on reset?

It would just ignore the write. At best in a multicart it would kick you to another game maybe.. which would be kinda fun.

12:49

Multicart ACE

about a full year since i started looking at it. :)

Image attachment

who is this message to?

Andrew

wow you looked at this pretty early after 2j ace

Yeah I started looking at it pretty much immediately after we found the 2j thing. Then was complaining to him that -1 didn't work out, he suggested the vine glitch.

14:06

Which was a good suggestion which didn't lead anywhere.

haha dude

Image attachment

14:06

didnt go check the literal 1 glitched world we had access to

Haha yeah so much can feel obvious in retrospect.

i guess technically tennis swap would save time getting to minus world and maybe put it under 4:54? lol

Mmm could probably get to that world N or whatever with the glitched bowser somehow with tennis swap?

yeah but that payload required smb3 cart swap also i think

ahh

i guess if youre swapping then who cares though

you can do what i've suggested with any cart swapping trick

14:09

just use family basic

14:10

it's an official release and everything.

basic like the programming language?

yeah

haha, i see. Not familiar with it

10 FOR I=&H7D3 TO &H7DC:POKE I,0:NEXT
20 POKE &H7FF,&HA5 
30 POKE &H7FD,&H16
40 DATA &HA9, &H07, &H8D, &H5F, &H07, &HA9, &H57, &H48, &HCE, &H72, &H07, &HA9, &H03, &H8D, &H5C, &H07, &H20, &H5A, &H86, &H4C, &H78, &H81
50 FOR I=0 TO 21:READ X:POKE I+&H181, X:NEXT

i think is the actual basic to do what the SMB3 setup did.

14:13

basically, clear a memory 7D3-7DC, set 7FF to A5, 7FD to 16, then A9 07 8D etc at 181 onward.. then you swap.

oh haha

14:14

nice

but yeah i have nothing against cart swap approaches but it doesn't feel like 'full' ACE (edited)

wait so researching more, is the 84 slot thing for bowser only important with the current crash we're doing? Where it overwrites the byte for player state and we need mario on the ground? (edited)

14:47

like in 2j/if we have a green koopa, do you need bowser in the 84 slot?

it needs to be 84 in both

15:40

but for different reasons :) (edited)

15:42

https://github.com/threecreepio/smb/blob/master/smb1_fds.lst#L5892 for the SMB1 thing, it'll be running a routine for the players state from here. and 84 becomes the 5th entry in that list.. which doesn't exist, so it will instead read the two bytes after the list, $60 and $20, which will make it jump to $2060.

smb/smb1_fds.lst at master · threecreepio/smb

Contribute to threecreepio/smb development by creating an account on GitHub.

15:44

i'd need to look up exactly what 2j runs, i can check that when i get back from work

would have been fun to find someone to do like a new demoscene kind of thing as a payload :)

ohh the title demo?

oh no i mean like, for the payload

18:50

if we show 'total control' that we can swap out the ROM

oh like a new level to play?

18:51

it's not too late, we can do as many payloads as we want to show off. Haha

18:51

it's fun that we can just go from reset and 5 seconds later we're ace-ing (edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRdGhHEoj3o i meant like one of these things, where you make a video + soundtrack thing to play. I know Simplistic was talking about wanting this particular video, but, I feel like so many people have done that. :)

Bad Apple PV-FC 2 (NES)

YouTube video thumbnail

18:55

not sure what we actually need to show though

yeah since 100th_coin already did that if it's easy to paste over we can have it as one of the fun paylaods to show off on stream. But we need the game win + something else cool + this at least

18:56

i think that would be fun

yeah

it's funny we can fake people out a ton on the showcase too

18:56

it starts with minus world ending so i can say im just running it for a testrun first

18:56

and then it keeps going...

18:56

mario dies, i can pretend it desync'd

18:56

we keep going

18:56

it crashes, i can pretend it didnt work

18:57

we keep going............

18:57

lol

"well, premiere is cancelled i guess.. i'll just play around as luigi."

so this is the tas of the stopped timer setup.. but.. for whatever reason the bowser refuses to stay alive now :D done it several times and he jumps and dies. which is interesting at least.. it seems like the bowser earlier in the stage that i let live is actually triggering the death. needs 76A=1, 76C=1 and 6F6F=1A set when you get into the minus world

dead_bowser.fm2

356.46 KB

there we go :)

ctl1_ace_with_stopped_timer.fm2

357.38 KB

so what happens is.. the duplicated object loads in, gets an offset to which enemy slot from 0-4 the game picked for the duplicated bowser.. in this case its 8 because it overran the slots and just found the closest 0 byte. then the bowser routine wants to place the bowser enemy ID in the enemy_id list for bowser.. so it writes it into enemy_id($16) + 8, which is $1E.. $1E is the state flag of the first enemy slot, which is the earlier spawned in bowser in this case, and $2D (bowsers id) sets the defeated flag $20. so when the duplicated enemy bowser spawned in, it instantly marked the other bowser as dead which erased all the enemies. :) (edited)

ah veryy interesting

16:58

so it can only be done when yo ualready killed an earlier bowser

hm no it'll overwrite some state with that, i think it could overwrite its own state.

17:04

but it would need to have covered the empty byte between the enemy flags and ids first, so, wouldn't work on the first 2 bowsers we have, and that would fill up our slots if we wanted it to be small only. (edited)

17:05

if you die at the midpoint you have more slots, not sure if we can get the bowser spawn there, but, it'd still take at least 2 glitched bowsers. so, i feel like any point where it would help us, we're already at the bowser that needs to be our actual ACE trigger.. (edited)

Hope this all works no matter which PPU revision and everything that you have.

threecreepio

if you die at the midpoint you have more slots, not sure if we can get the bowser spawn there, but, it'd still take at least 2 glitched bowsers. so, i feel like any point where it would help us, we're already at the bowser that needs to be our actual ACE trigger.. (edited)

Right. The only thing it would maaybe unlock is the infinite time version, but that is slower

17:24

regarding midway/after killing the first bowser in the stage: with fireflower you can shoot a grey cheep to keep it on screen longer, then move near the flagpole to prevent one of the glitched "flag" objects from loading. But as small I dont think you can prevent that from loading. So you get your slots more clogged up as small

yeah sounds about right

interesting that the slot after the enemy flags and enemy ids is marked 'dammy' in the source leak.

Image attachment

Oh the 001C spot?

18:05

Er wait that's after the flags

this is for all stars so the addresses are a bit off, this is the 'enemy_flags'

what would the route be if we could do it wihtout powerups

well it'd be the same, but the reason we have to do 1-1 and 1-2 again is to get powerups, otherwise you can just A+Start, right?

hold A+Start to get back?

yeah

do you have to game over for that or just reach there

pretty sure you can just get there, isn't that what both endings does? pretty sure i already checked this but i can do it again to be sure.

well both quests finishes the game so i didnt know if it updates at that point. Like, it goes back to the title screen rather htan from a reset

yep, it goes to -1 if you A+Start after being MWE

nice

that first bowser in -1 also behaves so weird, slowly climbing up the screen like that.

right, i dont know if thats because he starts at a weird y coordinate or what

yeah when he's climbed all the way back around to normal bowser position he does 'recover'

people always say 2j is super mario but so much harder, and we found the exception.

haha

01:46

smb1 is harder... to make cool stuff happen

(edited)

01:46

holds true

this is insane

12:23

if bowser breathed fire in minus world we would have ace in quest 1 (edited)

12:23

but they checked for exactly world 8 to breathe fire

Hah that.. is exactly what you’d figure for this game

i just figured out you can despawn one of the retainer objects

12:25

and i thought it was going to be it

And yeah makes sense. For this setup all we need is to fill the slots, don’t have to care about what exactly anymore.

001C filled, 1 open slot...

Image attachment

12:26

12:26

Image attachment

12:26

immediately filled

12:27

but if he breathed fire i was hoping to get this thing to dsepawn

and fast

12:30

oh hey i crashed the game without killing bowser or coming from the midway lol

12:30

this level is actually insanely close to crashing by default

12:30

it happens that when you swim at full speed this one parakoopa barely doesn't spawn

12:31

Image attachment

12:31

but you can let the other koopa fall in the pit wihtout scrolling the screen too far, and get the parakoopa to load instead of the retainer

Ah interesting, crashing in an interesting way?

oh like the one at the staircase

12:45

that you need 31 in zero page to avoid

12:46

normally you only see it if you kill the earlier bowser or start from the midway. But i got it by despawning the retainer

Ah right

this. stupid. Firebar!! Makes me most mad of all lol

Image attachment

12:47

if this thing spawned im pretty sure you could literally ace off that bowser right there

Hahaha

like bam bam ace

12:47

two quick ones

12:47

one off long firebar, let small firebar go off screen, ace on bowser

Really placed both enemies we need right next to eachother, super clean

12:47

Instant ACE

and out of order

12:47

if it was just 1...... ONE slot higher

12:47

above bowser

Im at a US Healthcare conference.. so. That’s fun.

oh

lol. How random

Yeah unexpected

12:49

It does feel like somehow it has to be possible in quest 1.. but yeah..

12:53

The problem is that first bowser kill will always put you in a ’clean’ state and just removes so many options.

threecreepio

there we go :)

finally watching this. At one point you just stand there for a super long time lol. Was that needed or were you typing to us on discord

13:12

oh, nevermind

13:12

mine desync'd because i didnt have quest 2 active

13:12

must be it

13:16

ok nice you did exactly what i was going to try to do, get the "4" koopa enemy into slot 4

13:17

thank you for sending this over!!

13:20

im seeing a crash but not hitting ctl1 inputs

I think I was just typing. It should hit ctl1 after hitting bowser. I can check if i messed something up when i get back. Can you check which enemy spawns in, is it 84? Otherwise something screwed up..

threecreepio

I think I was just typing. It should hit ctl1 after hitting bowser. I can check if i messed something up when i get back. Can you check which enemy spawns in, is it 84? Otherwise something screwed up..

it was when you were riding the platform, but i had it desync'd because quest 2 wasn't on

13:21

so you were just standing there

Ahhh

13:22

I know I’ve had some with big pointless pauses

is it SavedJoypad1Inputs that is ctl1?

But if it gets 84 spawned in and takes damage you can get ctl1. Oh maybe I only exported ctl1?

SavedJoypad1Bits

If so it needs b+select on ctl2

13:23

It is the one at 74A

threecreepio

But if it gets 84 spawned in and takes damage you can get ctl1. Oh maybe I only exported ctl1?

oh yeah theres no controler 2

Ok then that’s the problem :)

13:23

Always forget to export with ctl2..

oh is that how it works with taseditor

13:24

i just play with keyboard and it depends on if i have controller 2 enabled at the start of the tas or not. If not, i have to go manually add it into the file

Should be able to just start a new tas and ’copy current inputs’

i just do movie -> record movie so all of thes things sound really foreign to me

Image attachment

Ahh, I open the tas editor, set it to record mode and minimize it

13:28

But you can open the fm2 in the tas editor to add it, otherwise i can fix the inputs when i get home

Image attachment

13:30

do i just need to add B+Select ?

Right, so that should work. Yeah

13:31

B+Select on ctl 2 and it shouldn’t crash until you hit bowser

13:32

What’s nice with our new setup is that we can set things up so much easier by restarting.. but of course if we found a koop setup like that it would have been faster

post-crash it's definitely a lot more viable rta. But crash still hard

Oh yeah

13:36

It’d be very nice not to need the PPU

ok i added in 2p and got it working

Nice

13:37

Then there’s still the issue of getting payloads to do something useful

right

13:38

i have to focus purely on vdieo editing or i would love to mess with this

But I think that’d be doable, there are enemies to manipulate around there without filling the slots

13:40

But still it wouldn’t solve anything, since it still needs the initial ppu ace setup or some other unheard of way to stop the timer. We just need to get HappyLee to keep doing that flagpole thing but eh.. high enough so the timer stops.

lol i wonder if on pal you can swim through the top of the screen

13:43

probably not

13:43

but you can through ceilings

Just need FDS PAL SMB1

ez

13:44

did you say the bowser dying glitch could happen from this bowser, or no?

Image attachment

In theory, it depends on the enemy state slots at that moment. If it writes 2D into the state slot of that Bowser it would die. If it can happen.. well, it’s not easy to manipulate exact slots in -1

i see

13:46

if you could get it to die it might be possible to do the infinite timer ace with no powerups

But you would need that bowser to be glitched, so I’m not sure what it would buy you

but there is this one glitched object near the castle which i think i can only get to despawn with fire and killing a cheep cheep

13:46

to keep it on screen longer

threecreepio

But you would need that bowser to be glitched, so I’m not sure what it would buy you

glitched like doing the overflow glitch?

Yeah that’s what kills the bowser

yeah, we would do the overflow glitch on this bowser

13:47

and skip it on the previous bowser

The first one will always just write to the fireball state so that won’t help :)

oh, okay

I wonder if anything else can be done with the fireball+bowser state. It is a weird one.. but not noticed anything useful

threecreepio

so this is the tas of the stopped timer setup.. but.. for whatever reason the bowser refuses to stay alive now :D done it several times and he jumps and dies. which is interesting at least.. it seems like the bowser earlier in the stage that i let live is actually triggering the death. needs 76A=1, 76C=1 and 6F6F=1A set when you get into the minus world

i havent seen it yet. I'm going to watch this tas now

13:49

would be fun to mention

13:49

it's actually crazy we have ways to do basically everything you would need for ace, but none of them work in context

13:50

we can turn enemies around, we can stop the timer, we can kill bowser without fireballing him, we can make powerups spawn from the vine growing (?)

Yeah looking at the level data you’d think like, we have so much ACE potential here surely we just have to pick one

the glitched objects clog your slots at the exact worst times

13:50

the retainer kills this path i just looked at today

13:51

if you kill bowser to get rid of all the slots, then now you dont have any glitched objects to clog things up beore the next bowser lol

13:51

then after that bowser theres a hundred things clogging up

13:51

it's crazy

If this level was just, not underwater, we would have been aceing a year ago

13:52

Or more realistically we’d have no way past the flagpole, but if we could get past it we would have ace..

or even if the buzzy beetle turned the koopas around we also would be ace'ing much faster

13:53

theres so many things

threecreepio

Or more realistically we’d have no way past the flagpole, but if we could get past it we would have ace..

i bet you could get past it

13:54

bounce on a koopa through there or something

what happened in that original 1 byte ace we console verified? Where it crashed if you scrolled 32px?

14:05

is that something in here changed?

Image attachment

Kosmic

what happened in that original 1 byte ace we console verified? Where it crashed if you scrolled 32px?

Well it turned an instruction there after the BMI instead a 00 which is BRK. That sent execution to memory like $01

14:06

Which is something but then you need to reach something useful from there.. and you only have 32px to do it

14:06

I think maybe there could be something that could be done with it.. but it’d be really hard. Maybe for a TAS.

14:07

And then we don’t even have fire..

why does the first retainerobject in the level go in slot 1 and not 0..?

14:20

man i even got the firebar into slot 4, so we could 100% get the later bowser into 84 if not for this retainerobject

Image attachment

14:20

Image attachment

I know I’ve checked why they spawned there but it was a while ago..

now i need to figure out how to sleuth out the place to hex edit the enemy list here

Should just be enemy_flags and enemy_id, what do you want to set?

oh i mean in the rom, i want to change the order of the enemy list

14:25

i want to move the long firebar up 1 in the list so it spawns in, as well as move the little firebar 1 block to the right. So I can show how close those are to working

threecreepio

Or more realistically we’d have no way past the flagpole, but if we could get past it we would have ace..

just thinking about it, yeah if the level wasn't underwater you could 100% set up some koopas down low to clip through the floor with, or even screen wrap stomp to get over the flag

14:29

i mean if the level wasn't underwater theres even a chance you could reach the later bowser...

Kosmic

oh i mean in the rom, i want to change the order of the enemy list

Ah that’s also easy enough generally. Minus world can be a little tricky since you will change unrelated code as well.

Kosmic

just thinking about it, yeah if the level wasn't underwater you could 100% set up some koopas down low to clip through the floor with, or even screen wrap stomp to get over the flag

Yeah there would probably be something for TAS at least.

14:35

Should check what options would have been open if it wasn’t underwater at some point. Just for fun.

14:35

But it is far to those other bowsers.

threecreepio

But it is far to those other bowsers.

yeah but you can run at 1.6x speed. So instead of making it to only page ~40, you should be able to make it to ~64

14:37

i guess theres the matter of keeping slots full

Mmm the enemies aren’t moving faster, but, you can also stomp the parakoopas to keep them around longer

happylee style shell transportation all the way over

14:40

probably wouldnt make it lol

14:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO8PJktAZPk

Getting 14 1-Ups in SMB 3-2 by Kicking Shells

YouTube video thumbnail

Well now I want to see that

14:41

Yeah

14:41

All the way to the bowser

this looks slower than swimming haha

14:41

definitely slower than that platform ride

And the platform ride is not fast

Kosmic pinned a message to this channel. 2026-03-02 14:44

i love that theres this idea people have combed through every line of code

17:06

like, maybe, idk? probably? This stuff isn't always that obvious even if the code was right in front of you though

17:06

it gets repeated everywhere though

17:06

and it's just fascinating

17:07

youd have to read and sit and test every situation you can think of, even if they dont make sense in the context of the game

17:07

kind of takes it being found in 2j, where there is a real situation, for it to be properly looked at in smb1. and even then everyone walked away with "well, there's nowhere"

what's funny is that from at least my own experience making disassemblies, the more you document, the harder it can be to find 'exploits'

17:09

because like when the code is..

L_8056:
LDA $E
BEQ L_8090
ASL A
TAX
LDA $600,X

you have to really think about every last instruction and piece together what's happening in your head. then when it says like..

LoadEnemyRoutine:
LDA ActiveEnemyRoutine
BEQ EmptySlot
ASL A
TAX
LDA EnemyHandlerRoutines,X

you start just scanning through assuming the code is right because it reads ok

Image attachment

haha

18:54

no, it doesn't.

18:54

it has like 5

18:56

also it is funny that the underwater vine glitch puts your enemy data into a really weird state, and it's not produced anything useful.

threecreepio

it has like 5

i think it has 7, haha

19:01

i think i read this a while back and was like ahh, even if it worked in smb1, it wouldn't actually lead anywhere

Image attachment

19:01

fds version coming in sooo clutch

threecreepio

A:00 X:05 Y:36 S:F7 P:nvUbdiZC         $9C98: AD 47 07  LDA $0747 = #$00
A:00 X:05 Y:36 S:F7 P:nvUbdiZC         $9C9B: D0 43     BNE $9CE0
A:00 X:05 Y:36 S:F7 P:nvUbdiZC         $9C9D: 08        PHP  ;;; this is our modification
A:00 X:05 Y:36 S:F6 P:nvUbdiZC          $9C9E: 39 F0 11  AND $11F0,Y @ $1226 = #$00
A:00 X:05 Y:36 S:F6 P:nvUbdiZC          $9CA1: C9 03     CMP #$03

worked out pretty nice and stable.. like, LDA $747 is the timercontrol, and it waits until it's zero, then does the PHP that we replaced with the luigi PPU stuff.. and then a 3 byte AND which does nothing since A is always 0. and then it's aligned with the normal instructions again and just runs through until it returns from that routine, which will to to $0F33 where '33' are the CPU flags that were set when the PHP hit. which should always be the same. (edited)

so basically, because we replaced the ldaPowerUpType with the PHP, the accumulator still holds $0747, and that's where we end up jumping to from the JSR later?

Image attachment

not exactly, the top value on the stack is currently $0F, the processor cpu flags are $33. so after PHP the stack valuse with be 33 0F, when the RTS hits it takes 2 values off the stack, and returns to the byte after whatever that value is, so $0F34

oh I didn't realize, because of the PHP change now the next byte is also read differently as an AND?

yeah

11:54

then it lines up with real instructions again after that

ah i see so it executes at 0F34 which is probably a mirror of earlier ram?

yeah, 0734

1

when things are a mirror, is that what open bus is

nah, with the address mirroring.. say you hav ea chip that takes 3 address lines like this.. but in your program you have a 4 bit number that you're using to address it.. you take the lowest 3 bits andput them in A0, A1 and A2 and ignore the highest bit. now they're effectively mirrored because 0001 will be the same as 1001 since that bit goes nowhere.

Image attachment

oh! I see

12:05

thats a great explanation, thank you

and what's happening with the ppu bus is that you're reading from the device when it's not 'expecting' it, so what you're reading is going to be essentially undefined, often ends up being the last value written to it, but apparently not always. i can't say i'm an expert on open bus. :)

okay no worries! I know it's a hard question and 100th coin has even explained it to me but i couldn't remember. And google wasn't helping me fully understand

essentially all i know about the open bus'es is that i've read https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Open_bus_behavior

Open bus behavior

When the CPU attempts to read from an address which has no devices active, the result is open bus behavior. The value that results from a read in such a region is undefined, but on specific hardware predictable results may appear. Clone versions of the hardware, and flash cartridges like the PowerPak or Everdrive may differ in their open bus beh...

12:10

yeah he's probably better at explaining that. :)

which was the code change that made all of the holes break? And have glitchy vines floating above them

oh.. ehm i can check

18:52

7B : Write $50 to address $7B85

18:52

9B : Write $00 to address $9BA5 is also kinda fun when you hit coin blocks, think its this one

why are there two of them?

oh no the first one is the hole one

18:55

the second one makes it rain coins

oh okay, i see. Hard to parse discord formatting

18:56

i think this hole one is a reall nice one as an example of making a 1 byte change thats obvious

18:56

let me see this coin one

18:58

lol thats crazy

haha

well you know whats funny

yeah the hole is good, and the thing that rewrites the level data

i used to be like "Man, look at this, we can ACE with a 1 byte change to the game"

18:59

regarding turning the koopa around underwater

18:59

but then tahts exactly what we did haha

18:59

i think im going to incoorporate that

and yet we couldn't ACE turning that koop around

right

19:00

would've been slower. But, it would've been faster than infinite time!

19:00

Hey now theres a question

19:00

do any of our 1 byte changes affect the minus world? haha

ahh haha.. ehm, they do change some level data, don't think they change 1-3. and i'd need to remember exactly what memory range that enemy data was from. somewhere around retainer object handling..

do you know the data range that minus world reads from?

19:02

to generate the level

well the enemy data is somewhere around C8..-something. it's what's in .. E9-EA when the level loads

ok seems like thes would be the closest but they are not in C8 range

Image attachment

dang

19:06

and the level data is at 86xx, so, also not there

9 - long firebar
A - "86"
B - "209"
C - "166" / upward lift
D - red koopa
E - "181" glitchy spring object
F - "15" glitchy red parakoopa
G - "16" glitchy green parakoopa
H - red cheep
I - glitchy falling platform that throws a hammer
J - "15" glitchy red parakoopa
K - "170" glitchy surf platform
L - "181" glitchy spring object
M - firework
N - crash (jump to ram :)
O - bowser
P - crash (jump to ram??)
Q - podoboo
R - "166" / upward lift
S - red koopa
T - "181" glitchy spring object
U - firework
V - crash (jump to ram?)
W - buzzy beetle
X - crash (jump to ram?)
Y - crash (jump to ram?)
Z - crash (jump to ram?)
blank / minus world - bowser
other color tile - "208", nothing?

makes sense

i was like oh actually we're lucky, if it was Z then we would've crashed!

01:04

But, actually we'd just ace probably lol

i think Z didnt seem to jump to RAM, but yeah Y and X do

ah, then good thing it's not Z

oh it could be different on NES of course

yeah this is on FDS

ah ok

first i was testing on kaname 2j and then i thought better of it. Lol

01:06

not sure which of these glitchy things would actually despawn when going off screen

firework sounds fun

but yeah our chances of something good were high. But also chances of something bad

01:06

firework would've been perfect

01:06

just hangs around a few seconds then goes off

01:06

and disappears

its kinda like, it would need to be better, but if it was just like world Y, then we wouldn't have been trying because it'd be well known that SMB crashes to RAM in minus world by just killing bowser

right, ace forever ago

we live in the timeline where we somehow threaded the needle of it being seemingly impossible but apparently, not fully.

1

if you do a perfect setup of ACE on 2j on switch online, will it still throw the error and quit out?

it should work on switch

ok nice

i dont know if they have any check for like "anything that runs in RAM is a crash" but i doubt it

i was thinking how cool ace in smb1 is because it's ported so many places. Except... not fds version

yeah true.. good minus world is only in one place

ohh right, because it was built it and he was like uhh it's intended

01:35

gonna make this payload for the vid. Lol

Image attachment

01:37

hmm hard to make 3 byte instructions though, which i think I need to be able to write to this area of memory?

it takes some work at least, but should be doable. worst case we need an arbitrary TC payload like the thing i have in 2j. which should be fine to make, takes a little time to set up.

hm dang, was trying to do something simple and easy, but that is trickier

01:41

with thel imited time

true. i can try to find a good TC payload tomorrow.. i dont think it'd be that hard. i already have the 2j code for it, and the smb1 setup should be easier since it doesn't need to care about taking damage.

that would be cool. Would love to show loading into the last room of 8-4 as well

yeah that shouldn't be too bad

have just like, a little bit of time before bed to tinker around with this stuff, during the day im grinding the video

ah nice, going well?

threecreepio

hm i don't know.. maybe to not have the chance of despawning the retainer.. but then the retainer could just force-write itself like the starflag

i think they also run the delete-everything function when you grab the axe anyway so... lol why does it do this

seems like the KillAllEnemies function is used when grabbing the axe, killing bowser, or looping a room on maze castles. But maze loops or grabbing the axe do seem to delete the powerup slot, whereas killing bowser doesn't...?

12:44

the function definitely looks like it's supposed to start at slot 04, not sure why it deletes the powerup on maze triggers and stuff

and yeah they really went overboard with killing everything on the bowser death and the bridge collapse..

Yeah the joypad thing didn’t do much good

16:32

Im just really glad we didn’t have to do the 32px scroll thing

when you said this was it becasue you missed putting it in the list initially?

Image attachment

threecreepio

Im just really glad we didn’t have to do the 32px scroll thing

truuue

think it was just related to this

Image attachment

16:35

when i said, oh none of these things look like they'll make a significant difference, and then, well the timer could be interesting

oh so did you already know about the timer at that point, just didnt think of it? (edited)

yeah, i saw it and just thought, well the 'digits math routine' is used to convert things to visible formats for like the score. which felt useless.

16:37

before i remembered that the timer uses that as the actual timer value

ahh

16:37

awesome

and it would be super useful..

16:38

if you could get back to -1 :)

yeah it's actually just an insane part of the story

16:38

stopped by 1 thing at every lead

oh yeah so many potential ACEs

curious what this one does

Image attachment

16:48

how is the first line 2 byte opcode but the second one is 3?

16:48

Image attachment

anything from $00-$FF can be done in 2 bytes, zeropage operations

16:54

and yeah i haven't tested it,you can. but it should just end up just messing a little with the ppu

16:54

no idea if that crashes or anything

oh wow i didnt expect block_pageloc2 to be so far from the first one

9d9e i think at least did something more fun

16:55

thats the one that messed with the areadata iirc

this one makes all block chunks disappear when they go above the screen, lol

Image attachment

ah useful

woah, 9D9E is crazy

16:57

Image attachment

haha yeah it can really mess things up

16:57

i think it moves the areadata pointers based on your Y position

just spawn an axe to win lol

Image attachment

ay nice! slap that in world 8 and we don't even need a second ace

16:59

problem is the blocks kinda suck in 8-1 :)

this is procedurally generated smb1 lol

Image attachment

i think this was the one you were going to do a new glitched worlds stream on? :)

yeah for sure gotta do that lol

and legitimately possible to reach in game!

right!

might still want a code or hacked rom to enable it..

ill have to have a real tas make it happen when i do it

17:00

oh true

yeah

17:03

wow, i want to do a stream of trying to beat the game with CECE 5D

hmm what did that one do?

totally messes with your ypos

Image attachment

ohhh yeah

17:04

that one was annoying

these music corruption ones, ive heard this exact sort of thing before. From ACE fails or something

17:09

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2702163425?filter=highlights&sort=time

Ace worked but didn't work??? Pin adapter issue? - kosmic on Twitch

kosmic went live on Twitch. Catch up on their Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels VOD now.

17:10

i guess once it gets off it just starts reading all the music data until it gets back on track or something

ahh haven't tried the music things at all

any idea what the bowserflameenv data one does? Make them come at a slightly different timing?

should just be the sound effects

17:12

that was a beautiful clip

yeah it will be good. Just an insane amount of work for me in short time

17:17

if you end up buildilng that total control payload i'd love to show off warping to 8-4 last room

yeah i can do that. i'm pretty sure it'll be easier to set up in this than it was in 2j

man, im trying to take damage from a hammer bro after the flagpole in minus world but it's just not working

18:02

this is definitely a thing though?? why cant i take damage from it lol

18:03

Image attachment

did you check with the hitbox script?

oh haha..

Image attachment

yeah :)

18:42

they love doing that when they throw hammers to the right, im sure there's a reason

hmm ok i think maybe if i break the castle bricks then i can be further to the left and get hit by one thrown left

18:45

oh you cant break them underwater rofl

thats amazing

cant really be further to the left than this then

18:46

the screen doesnt scroll until you hit the ground

yeah..

18:48

i dont know if they never get hitboxes when thrown to the right

oh yeah, i know they usually dont hit you when coming from bowser, when youre standing right by the axe (like waiting to do small fire)

18:48

i feel like ive MAYBE been hit before...

18:48

being too confident it wouldnt

18:48

not sure though

18:49

that is weird haha

18:49

er wait, they definitely do sometimes get them because

18:49

well, 5-2 vine glitch

18:49

and i also tested this with hacks

18:49

thats why i was sure it could work

18:49

just running into the pipe in 1-1 and 5 hammer bros throwing at me

ah true

Do you know which one of the byte changes made that buzzy beetle messed up? Oh, was that just the 32px one

hm which one?

21:52

ah this?

Image attachment

21:52

yeah that was the 32px

made my total control thing mostly work with smb1. :) you can definitely tell which one is the bowser pipe! (edited)

01:19

i_mean_its_not_fast_but.fm2

65.08 KB

this bowser lol

Kosmic

this bowser lol

that bowser will kill you too, hard to dodge

right lol

03:07

can you trigger mario entering a pipe without going over to that pipe

03:07

like just put him in pipe entering mode

yeah should be able to

what made you choose to appear 1 page over, is that so bowser/the axe would spawn?

yeah bowser doesnt spawn if you go 1 farther right

makes sense

and that'd be a bit anticlimactic after that first bowser fight at the pipe

haha

threecreepio

made my total control thing mostly work with smb1. :) you can definitely tell which one is the bowser pipe! (edited)

why does this happen

i have no idea why its screen wrapping like that.. i think maybe something just overwrote its speed values. there's a lot of random writes going on from just executing in ram like that. :)

why is there the big pause where nothing is happening, beforei t recovers

ehm well there's the segment from frame 1486 - 1787, writing like 21 bytes.. so like 14 frames per byte roughly. that enters:

: jsr FDSBIOS_VINTWAIT
  jsr FDSBIOS_READPADS
  ldx TRAMP_INDEX
  lda READPADS_CTL1
  sta EXEC_LOCATION,x
  inc TRAMP_INDEX
  bpl :-
  jmp EXEC_LOCATION

which is just a loop that waits for a frame, reads the controller, writes its value to ram, and does that 127 times, regardless of the size of the actual code to load.. then it jumps to where it stored it. the code that writes in is the actual payload:

  lda #7
  sta $075f
  lda #3
  sta $075c
  lda #$65
  sta $0750
  lda #17
  sta $0751
  lda #0
  sta $301
  sta $7b1
  sta $F5
  sta $F6
  dec $14
  lda #$80
  sta $2000
  jmp $605C

that is "easy" to modify in that the controller inputs can be changed to whatever it is you want to enter

i mean right at the end. So i guess thats it running the payload after its all set up

like this part?

Image attachment

yeah where the inputs freeze as well

ahh

~1835 - 1900

thats because i have it set to always read 127 bytes, but my payload isnt 127 bytes.

ohh lol

its already really hard to find any space to write the code we need in zeropage without the game crashing, so :) mostly constrained by that

i think this would be the ultimate showcase. Connect smb1 to this tas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIHTMjlnW90

2J Total Control TAS on console

YouTube video thumbnail

have 2j load in smb1 in second quest, play the ace from there, and then load back into 2j.

03:36

do you know if the tas replay thing can handle multiple inputs per frame?

it can!

03:36

this tas does subframe inputs

oh nice

03:36

oh so it does

03:36

didnt notice how fast it was

03:37

it is very fun

threecreepio

have 2j load in smb1 in second quest, play the ace from there, and then load back into 2j.

is there a technical limitation that prevents us from starting with smb1? doing it all inside smb1

oh no we can start in smb1

oh ok nice

03:38

funny that theyre all on fds. Is that because of IRQ stuff do you think? That the fds version is what works for all these

03:38

smb1 -> 2j -> zelda -> castlevania -> more Is such an awesome chain of aceception

well if you're replacing the game, you'd need FDS to have PRG-RAM at least

like if we showed it off, it'd be like wooah you programmed 2j in here, thats crazy. But the next one is zelda which will blow some people's minds. Ofc we understand that we can do whatever, but yeah

but yeah aside from that, i guess, zelda and cv i think use the name entry?

03:40

oh yeah it's a good demo

not sure about cv. I believe you have to set it up first by dying 80 times or something silly

better than bad apple :)

03:41

ohh right yeah.. i remember he used my everdrive thing that lets you ram dump original games so he could track progress.

oh, i wonder if that was an old setup. The ace WR starts from poweron

i think it's saved to disk how many times you've died

ahh

03:42

its like if you needed 2j title stars for payload

yeah and i think they track it but dont show it anywhere or something

03:43

but the game knows

are you able to do 127 bytes in a row and then keep writing more?

well i could step it up to 256

03:46

and yeah of course i can do more

i just wondered how it worked exactly

like that volleyball thing is a lot more

you can do 3 byte opcodes i assume

yeah

03:46

this lets you do whatever you want. its like a 3 stage payload thing, and i could fit the second stage in 127 bytes so that's what i went with

the warpzone should be a super easy payload if i can literally just like, lda -> #imm // sta -> $address

.res EXEC_LOCATION-*,$00
.org EXEC_LOCATION+1
  lda #0
  tay
  sta PPU_CTRL_REG1
  sta PPU_CTRL_REG2
  sta SND_MASTERCTRL_REG
  sta $10
  sta $11

  ;; copy $400-$7FF
  lda #4
  sta EXEC_SRC_HI
  lda #8
  sta EXEC_END
  jsr ramcpy

  ; copy PRG
  lda #$60
  sta EXEC_SRC_HI
  lda #$E0
  sta EXEC_END
  jsr ramcpy

  ; copy PPU
  lda #0
  sta EXEC_SRC_HI
  lda #$20
  sta EXEC_END
: jsr nextframe
  lda EXEC_SRC_HI
  sta PPU_ADDRESS
  lda EXEC_SRC_LO
  sta PPU_ADDRESS
  lda READPADS_CTL1
  sta PPU_DATA
  lda READPADS_CTL2
  sta PPU_DATA
  jsr advance
  bcc :-

  jmp ($fffc)

ramcpy:
: jsr nextframe
  lda READPADS_CTL1
  sta (EXEC_SRC_LO),y
  iny
  lda READPADS_CTL2
  sta (EXEC_SRC_LO),y
  dey
  jsr advance
  bcc :-
  rts

nextframe:
  jsr FDSBIOS_VINTWAIT
  jmp FDSBIOS_READPADS
  
advance:
  clc
  inc EXEC_SRC_LO
  inc EXEC_SRC_LO
  bne :+
  inc EXEC_SRC_HI
  lda EXEC_SRC_HI
  cmp EXEC_END
: rts

.res (EXEC_LOCATION+$80)-*,$EA

this is how the full loads word, so, to do multiple inputs per frame the only difference is removing 'jsr FDSBIOS_VINTWAIT'

03:49

i think for the warpzone what you'd do is..

  ldx #0
: lda Message,x
  sta WarpzoneMessageLocation,x
  inx
  cpx #MessageEnd-Message
  bne :-
: jmp :-
Message:
.byte "SUBSCRIBE TO KOSMIC"
MessageEnd:

then you could let it run, reset after and it should stay swapped out. (edited)

oh, hmm much more sophisticated

yeah i mean either one works.. doing it with ldas would take.. 5 bytes per character, 95 bytes, so you'd be fine

yeah just for the sake of ease

03:52

but it seems like you have a good system of just writing assembly and then translating that into bytes / inputs

yeah i mean for me thats easier, i can just run a script and get the inputs. otherwise you have to translate it into the inputs yourself.. which, isnt hard.

03:59

ubscribe!

Image attachment

1

04:01

ay

Image attachment

04:02

230.64 KB

haha

Image attachment

yeah it's funny i wasn't expecting the outcome we went for to be modifying the PRG, even though i knew that the SMB2J ACE if you screw it up sometimes overwrites parts of PRG.. and of course my total control example rewrites all of PRG.

threecreepio

yeah it's funny i wasn't expecting the outcome we went for to be modifying the PRG, even though i knew that the SMB2J ACE if you screw it up sometimes overwrites parts of PRG.. and of course my total control example rewrites all of PRG.

oh, i see wow, that seems obvious but for some reason i didnt undersatnd that's how those full game ace's worked

15:19

i was just like oh it's a disk, we've got space

15:19

didnt think long enough about it

yeah it wouldn't have worked in 2J of course because when you reset in 8-4 it reloads from disk iirc?

oh yeah to load a different file (edited)

yeah so this is an SMB1-specific approach. :) With 2J you'd have to break the file reload function too.

I assume you have a script which will convert a full game's prg into inputs?

yeah. it needs a little cleanup, but https://github.com/threecreepio/smb2j-ace-tc

GitHub - threecreepio/smb2j-ace-tc: "Total Control" example in SMB2...

"Total Control" example in SMB2J ACE. Contribute to threecreepio/smb2j-ace-tc development by creating an account on GitHub.

15:22

that one is 2j only of course. i needed to adjust it for SMB1.

are there any restrictions on your total control thing? Like do you need to be careful about the payload in any way?

nah as soon as it's in the mode where i'm entering the real payload everything else is stopped. so it's just getting into that state that takes some work.

in your payload it hits this spot near the end where there stops being p2 inputs. What's the reason for that?

13:16

I'm trying to just add in a couple bytes to the end of it but didnt see what i expect to happen

there's 3 segments to it, one of them is using the ACE where we can only execute a single instruction per frame.. that part shifts bits until an area of memory matches what i want and then jumps to that location.. that code then reads 128 bytes from controller 1 inputs and writes them to a different memory location. when it's done it jumps to execute those instructions.

13:20

so the area where it's just the first controller writing inputs it should be writing the actual payload to $301 in memory

ah, gotcha

13:21

so if i want to add something i add it to the end of the 2 player part right

i found something that will maaaaybe be useful for the game ending payload. hopefully.

13:22

if i add something to the 2P section i guess i also need to add something to the 1P section?

like you want to change the part where it's inputting on both controllers?

i just want to add a few bytes to the payload, however taht works

ah ok, well the best spot to change is where there's only P1 inputs

13:26

you just enter one byte of the code you want to run per frame as ctl1 inputs, and can watch $301 to see that it's getting written in as you want

just add my bytes in right before the L U SBA starts?

Image attachment

on the line before before SB, that's the RTS

another thing i haven't wanted to really go into is that we could also do indirect jumps to try to change the values we need.

14:41

which is a large possible space of things to try and they would probably not work.

right i can imagine

14:43

with this moving shell/mario xpos too it's like

14:43

buncha random addresses

aw was just 4 bytes away from a great idea (edited)

15:02

not sure if it would have worked

55.01 KB

or this

55.17 KB

optimized the starting movement a bit. :)

pipe2-faster.fm2

60.02 KB

classic 378 IGT 8-4

Im going to submit it as my IL

haha, nice. What was wrong with the way I was trying to do it? How does this 2nd one work, why did you have to go to the earlier pipe instead of 1 page forward?

Oh it can I just figured it was a little nicer looking at the pipe. But I can change it.

oh gothca. I actually like dropping out of the air, it's more obvious like "we can do whatever we want with ACE" and doesn't look like it could just be spliced or something haha

  lda #7
  sta WorldNumber
  lda #3
  sta LevelNumber
  lda #$65
  sta AreaPointer
  lda #16
  sta EntrancePage
  lda #0
  sta VRAM_Buffer1
  sta MusicData
  sta MusicData+1
  lda #$80
  dec $14 ; disable powerup
  sta PPU_CTRL_REG1
  ldy #2 ; side entry pipe
  jsr $9218
  jmp $605C

is what i coded up for it anyway, could be maybe that you needed to put it somewhere else in the inputs

12:17

i can definitely change it!

oh I didn't jump to endless loop. Maybe that would've worked

12:20

or, maybe yours already did that and i put my code after the jump. Lol

ahh yeah it will crash if you don't, since the RTI later expects to go back to a safe spot, otherwise it'll return to RAM :)

it didnt crash it seemed like it didnt do anything

thankfully i can just change the code, run make and i get the new tas file :)

thats really nice, yeah i was only doing a few instructions so i did it manually but i should try your script

mmm i could send it, could probably also maybe make it a little easier to work with..

haha, thats the classic

yeah always something. it's not bad as is, but you do need make, node.js and cc65 for it

54.06 KB

I didn't realize, when you spawn the flag/power/whatever glitched object thats past the ACE bowser, just.. nothing will ever spawn again? Why?

Image attachment

the powerup object always expects to be the final slot, so it just changes the load offset up to 5 and doesn't ever restore it. so none of the slots after it can run. :)

this bit

Image attachment

threecreepio

the powerup object always expects to be the final slot, so it just changes the load offset up to 5 and doesn't ever restore it. so none of the slots after it can run. :)

ohh, wow okay... interesting

11:56

thanks

i'd say maybe we could try to adjust the powerup slot to keep getting spawns, but, probably can't and even if we could we're already out of time, so

threecreepio

Click to see attachment 🖼️

why is mario swimming lol

Kosmic

why is mario swimming lol

You wanted it obvious that it's not a splice. :) Well mario doesn't usually swim in 8-4.

11:59

Not in that room, anyway.

nah i just said i liked dropping out of the air more because coming from the pipe looks basically the same as a splice haha

fair. :)

that is funny though. Maybe ill use it

12:01

"we can go straight to 8-4 if we wanted instead.... And make mario swim if we want too!"

yeah can definitely disable the swimming

with running speed it's kinda fun

12:03

Image attachment

Kosmic

Click to see attachment 🖼️

uh oh

takin a dip

can get this beautiful setup off of spawning the vine. So in our infinite time situation, we wouldn't need powerups.... just a vine

and of course, we can't set that up, unless you could push Button B and send Mario to world 5 and Luigi to Minus World

Image attachment

14:42

or in quest 1 you of course can also set this up, and then you can even reach the page where the later bowser would spawn- but not while keeping object slots free from the nonsense

haha yeah i know, one of the three koops getting turned around on the castle block.. so very annoying. :)

i didnt know whether you could get the overflow glitch off that bowser past the castle, but you can (even powerupless) with careful despawning of koopa/spawning of buzzy

14:46

if you could get the invisible koopa going at 24 speed i think you could make it

14:46

in quest 1

14:46

i made it like 7 pages farther than i needed to, swimming at full speed

after killing the earlier bowser?

i didnt kill him, i was smallm ario

ah gotcha

14:46

but yeah should still be enough time i guess

14:47

if something would actually move right at that speed

you might have to be really slow and bring these (quest 1) beetle and koopa with you + the "4" koopa in order to get past the powerup spawn though

14:47

so that might eat up all the time

14:48

hmm maybe not

dont remember what i used in the infinite time tas i sent you, but, feel like i only have 2 enemies. it was slow though.

oh wow, this works out kinda perfectly

14:51

those lift (surfing) go at 16 speed i assume?

yeah if thats.. what the 04 moves at when you spawn it into the dying hammer bro slot. a bit faster than normal enemies move speeds.

bullet bill moves at 24 speed

if only

14:54

we'd have ace in quest 1, and it'd be even slower than what we currently do! Lol

yeah.. just gotta turn it around.. how hard can that be

14:55

haha

14:55

and of course the vine glitch in 2-2 can give you powerups.

would that actually help

well at least if we had the vine glitch and then got up to fire, we'd be able to do something more

what would we be able to do?

the powerup wouldn't be blocking more spawns, we could snipe some enemies to affect spawns a bit maybe. being small only is at least a disadvantage.. if we could actually get ace out of it i don' t know.

oh hmm despawning that glitch powerup. Interesting

say it had spawned in like a normal powerup instead, it may not help enough, but it would change things a bit.

i think it woudlnt really change anything. But it would let you fireball hte parakoopa at the end so you wouldnt have to ppu ace

sure

15:02

or if there wasn't an empty byte between the ids and the state flags

that would be crazy haha

then we should be able to kill a bowser as small mario, if we get to one.

probably would've caught it in 2j testing

well there could still be an empty byte between the flags and ids

oh wait you mean that

yeah they may well have caught that anyway

15:04

mostly it would have killed the first enemy with state 0

again no fire smh

15:21

yeah

15:21

let me try walking the glitch koopa with fireflower to kill the hammer bro

15:28

man, 1 single fireball

Image attachment

15:28

we just need to get this glitch koopa moving at 10 speed and we're good

15:29

if you could spawn from the midway with powerups you 100% officially could ace right here

15:31

well. Bowser isn't in slot 4. Would have to check on that

well with 1 single fireball i made it to bowser with giving myself 11 extra seconds on the clock

15:57

and the bowser in slot 4

15:57

had to waste some extra time bringing the blooper at the start farther to the right to do that. But if you had different rng where the blooper just runs away or whatever, that should easily do it

15:57

plus i clipped through the flagpole instead of swimming straight over. I'm sure it's possible

when you get to bowser but with like 82 object instead of 84, and the game starts chugging, what exactly is happening there?

13:57

i don't recall exactly what it is that it does, been some months since i checked.. but i can test it out if you haven't already. iirc it's when the state gets written to the bowser object that it starts kinda wigging out, lagging every other frame?

yeah yeah i get that. and i'll read it, should be fun. when do you plan to start recording it?

just realized if this guy were a "Green koopa (stopped)" instead of a green parakoopa (stopped) we would have ace in quest 1

Image attachment

18:21

or if any of the parakoopas or enemies were that 04 object at any point

18:21

except the one that comes right after bowser. Lol

Hm would we? They’d still despawn after the first bowser?

but we could keep an extra slot free at bowser, and not kill him

18:24

like if literally any enemy could move to the right ANYWHERE before the 2nd bowser we would win

18:24

because if it is before the first bowser, we get an extra slot, and we don't kill bowser

18:25

if it's after the 1st bowser we just have enough at the 2nd bowser

18:25

like 1 single blooper, rightward moving platform, anything anywhere haha

18:28

in case you dont understand what i mean: slots at 1st bowser would be like 0: retainer 1: flag 2: firebar 3: bowser 4: glitch koopa or whatever 5: star flag then we make firebar and glitch koopa go off screen 0: retainer 1: flag 2: retainer 3: bowser 4: 5: star flag

sorry been at an afterwork so my mental capacity is a little shot at the moment. :) (edited)

oh you're totally good man!

by the way i've checked with everyone just to be sure it's alright with them, i downloaded the chat log from the group chat and figured we could like just attach/link it on tasvideos or something to preserve it since it's kinda interesting history of how things happened. figured there's nothing private in there but let me know if you want to go through and edit/remove anything, or if you don't want to be included in it. :) (edited)

haha.. yeah would have maybe made sense around the initial 2 week delay, i guess, now it feels kinda pointless at least.

i added the scrollhandler as another failed thing we tried to my section, won't add the infinite timer though, but it would be fun to have it in there since that was a rollercoaster too.

I'll be sure to add it

one thing that could be worth mentioning with the infinite timer is noting that its like, still not far off from working either. (edited)

Kosmic

Click to see attachment 🖼️

that is eh, not beautiful.

it got messed up from the regular game end payload the first time around

02:39

i ran the ol simplistic one though, it still made these weird graphics.... so much inconsistent behavior with this

should probably update my script to use the subneshawk thing so that transition is faster. then it could also just redraw the entire CHR

02:42

the infinite timer uses these enemy floateynumber positions in memory..

0BA16                           SetupFloateyNumber:
0BA16 9D 10 01                         sta FloateyNum_Control,x ;set number of points control for floatey numbers
0BA19 A9 30                            lda #$30
0BA1B 9D 2C 01                         sta FloateyNum_Timer,x   ;set timer for floatey numbers
0BA1E B5 CF                            lda Enemy_Y_Position,x
0BA20 9D 1E 01                         sta FloateyNum_Y_Pos,x   ;set vertical coordinate
0BA23 AD AE 03                         lda Enemy_Rel_XPos
0BA26 9D 17 01                         sta FloateyNum_X_Pos,x   ;set horizontal coordinate and leave
0BA29 60                        ExSFN: rts
0BA2A

which almost works except - there's an empty padding byte between the X and Y pos. if there wasn't we could probably get out of 1-1 if we could kill some enemies at the right Y pos and collect a powerup at the right X pos. it would of course be much slower than what we're doing now with the powerup.

oh thats interesting

02:43

haha thanks for looking into that. That would've been wild

have you managed to actually get the ACE today? if you've been trying any.

0/12 this morning, just booted it up and got it first try

02:43

but then the next few didnt work

02:44

i really wanted to get a better recording with my phone camera instead of the webcam

maybe we need to add console heat as a variable. :)

yeah apparently

02:44

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